Escort Radar Forum  

Go Back   Escort Radar Forum > Windshield Radar Detectors > MAX II and MAX

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 3rd, 2013
davidleeandrews davidleeandrews is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 22
Question So should I leave POP OFF? Newbie here

Hello all. I just purchased and recieved my Passport MAX yesterday. I have TSR off, yet I turned POP on (in hopes it would aid in I/O and QT radar.) This is what another person said about POP ON via another message board...

"With the Escorts I would leave POP off because it actually hinders performance and POP is not used here in Indiana. I have yet to see POP radar in use. Most 33.8 radar here is the MPH Python II or III and it is not even POP capable. Indiana State Police have some 33.8 radar and they are also using the Python II or III on that frequency. You are more likely to run into Kustom 35.5 Ka from ISP."

So is he correct? Would POP ON actually decrease or hinder performance? Would the MAX still be able to succesfully ALERT to I/O and QT radar?

Thank you for your responses in advance! Seriously, feel free to comment, as I am still learning.

Thanks again,
davidleeandrews yet
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 3rd, 2013
Rocky2 Rocky2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,658
Default

It would hinder performance on most Escort RD's. But its been reported that it does not affect the reactivity of the Escort Max.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk 4
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 3rd, 2013
PhilP PhilP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 381
Default

With other detectors, POP mode being on has them scan 33.8 much more often to catch those quick hits. That means they spend less time scanning 34.7 and 35.5, so they lose some range when POP is enabled.

The Max is a different beast. For one, it is far faster than the analog detectors (yes, even much faster than the segmented Redline or custom swept V1, the current #1 and #2 for absolute range). So you likely don't suffer any performance degradation from having POP turned on with the Max- at least, none you'd notice.

What you WOULD suffer is spurious POP alerts. That is, the detector wouldn't be filtering them out at all, anything that looks like a short 33.8 hit is going to trigger a POP alert... whether it's a legit signal or not.

Now, you ask about the Max successfully alerting to I/O and QT modes. Let me be very clear on this. This is something a few here aren't noticing:

QT (Quick Trigger) and I/O (Instant On) are the same thing!

QT is a method of using I/O, not a special setting. It's where the officer quickly turns on and off the radar manually with the remote. This leads to shorter bursts than flicking it on when the officer sees a vehicle of interest and just leaving it on for a few seconds, but human reaction times being what they are, the burst is much longer than a POP shot. POP shots tend to be 67ms... human reaction times can't come close to that. A fast operator is still likely to have bursts in the hundreds of milliseconds duration. There's only so fast a human can hit that button.

POP mode is NOT needed to catch such things. If you're worried about POP in your area, you can turn it on, but your real worry with the Max will be false alerts and not lack of other performance. Without any evidence that POP is used in your area, I'd personally leave it off lest your detector go screaming its head off at everything.

The way POP mode is supposed to be used is to give quick bursts detectors may not pick up in order to get a ball park estimate of speed... it just isn't accurate enough for citations to be issued (the manual from MPH says it isn't to be used for that). The officer POPs individual cars looking for one moving fast enough to make for an interesting citation. These hits might go unnoticed by detectors, so a car further down the road may have no idea what's going on and be cruising at extra-legal speeds, blissfully unaware of what that detector is missing. Then, when the officer POPs a car and gets a high speed returned, he can then use a regular I/O burst to get an accurate speed reading that can be used for a citation... since the RD in the car missed the POP burst, the driver hasn't started slowing down yet and gets caught by the regular I/O shot.

That's how it's intended to work.

But the thing is, the whole scheme depends on traffic being light enough for such POPs to be useful at picking out single vehicles but heavy enough that there might be an RD user somewhere in range on down the road. The officer will also generally need to be paying great attention to things- not writing reports or doing anything else. This set of circumstances may not come together all that often. It may just be easier to use only I/O radar and write tickets at whomever is moving fast enough- unless the officer just wants to nail RD users, there's no point in using POP. And with the increasing use of LIDAR, it's easier to just use the laser gun if one is available and you'll get just as good results, if not better.

So that's why POP generally isn't much a threat- it just isn't all that useful.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 3rd, 2013
davidleeandrews davidleeandrews is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 22
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilP View Post
With other detectors, POP mode being on has them scan 33.8 much more often to catch those quick hits. That means they spend less time scanning 34.7 and 35.5, so they lose some range when POP is enabled.

The Max is a different beast. For one, it is far faster than the analog detectors (yes, even much faster than the segmented Redline or custom swept V1, the current #1 and #2 for absolute range). So you likely don't suffer any performance degradation from having POP turned on with the Max- at least, none you'd notice.

What you WOULD suffer is spurious POP alerts. That is, the detector wouldn't be filtering them out at all, anything that looks like a short 33.8 hit is going to trigger a POP alert... whether it's a legit signal or not.

Now, you ask about the Max successfully alerting to I/O and QT modes. Let me be very clear on this. This is something a few here aren't noticing:

QT (Quick Trigger) and I/O (Instant On) are the same thing!

QT is a method of using I/O, not a special setting. It's where the officer quickly turns on and off the radar manually with the remote. This leads to shorter bursts than flicking it on when the officer sees a vehicle of interest and just leaving it on for a few seconds, but human reaction times being what they are, the burst is much longer than a POP shot. POP shots tend to be 67ms... human reaction times can't come close to that. A fast operator is still likely to have bursts in the hundreds of milliseconds duration. There's only so fast a human can hit that button.

POP mode is NOT needed to catch such things. If you're worried about POP in your area, you can turn it on, but your real worry with the Max will be false alerts and not lack of other performance. Without any evidence that POP is used in your area, I'd personally leave it off lest your detector go screaming its head off at everything.

The way POP mode is supposed to be used is to give quick bursts detectors may not pick up in order to get a ball park estimate of speed... it just isn't accurate enough for citations to be issued (the manual from MPH says it isn't to be used for that). The officer POPs individual cars looking for one moving fast enough to make for an interesting citation. These hits might go unnoticed by detectors, so a car further down the road may have no idea what's going on and be cruising at extra-legal speeds, blissfully unaware of what that detector is missing. Then, when the officer POPs a car and gets a high speed returned, he can then use a regular I/O burst to get an accurate speed reading that can be used for a citation... since the RD in the car missed the POP burst, the driver hasn't started slowing down yet and gets caught by the regular I/O shot.

That's how it's intended to work.

But the thing is, the whole scheme depends on traffic being light enough for such POPs to be useful at picking out single vehicles but heavy enough that there might be an RD user somewhere in range on down the road. The officer will also generally need to be paying great attention to things- not writing reports or doing anything else. This set of circumstances may not come together all that often. It may just be easier to use only I/O radar and write tickets at whomever is moving fast enough- unless the officer just wants to nail RD users, there's no point in using POP. And with the increasing use of LIDAR, it's easier to just use the laser gun if one is available and you'll get just as good results, if not better.

So that's why POP generally isn't much a threat- it just isn't all that useful.
WOW PHILIP! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS WONDERFUL INFORMATION! They use the 38.8 band around here as well, but not record of POP being used here in Indiana. I think I will turn it off :-)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 3rd, 2013
Rocky2 Rocky2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,658
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidleeandrews View Post
WOW PHILIP! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS WONDERFUL INFORMATION! They use the 38.8 band around here as well, but not record of POP being used here in Indiana. I think I will turn it off :-)
I lived in IN most my life and I always had POP Off. What scared me the most was their rolling instant on Ka 35.5, and use of unmarked cars.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk 4
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 3rd, 2013
EscortRadar's Avatar
EscortRadar EscortRadar is offline
Official Escort Rep
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,080
Default

Leave POP off on any of our detectors. It will slow down detection of non-POP radar because it has to go back and look at 33.8GHz every 67mS (the transmit time of a POP burst). Of more importance though, if you turn POP on then you will get regular POP false alerts from nearby radar detectors. Radar detectors leak radar-like emissions which are normally filtered out. Because POP mode bursts are so fast these processes are disabled with POP detection on.

POP mode radar is very rare and only used to preview speed then normal, easily detected, radar mode should switched on to issue a citation.

Because Max scans all radar frequencies so fast, it is fast enough to catch QT and IO with POP off or on. Here's a video from a user bench QT testing Max with several radar guns demonstrating this. It didn't miss a shot. You can find his full review in the Passport Max section of the forum, the sticky titled, "The Max Experience".

Just remember that the initial target of POP, QT or IO will be alerted but their speed will also be measured. Your only defense against them is detecting someone ahead of you being shot or through networked alerts from other users who recently reported them such as with the Escort Live smartphone app.
__________________

Escort Radar customer service is available from 9am-5:00pm Eastern Time Mon-Fri at 1-800-543-1608 or you can fill out a repair form and we will contact you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 3rd, 2013
Higado de Acero Higado de Acero is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 37
Default

I wonder if we should be talking about this at this level.


Sent from the driest desert in the world usingTapatalk 2.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 3rd, 2013
fiberrich's Avatar
fiberrich fiberrich is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Out Chasing Wabbits!
Posts: 974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higado de Acero View Post
I wonder if we should be talking about this at this level.


OP: So should I leave POP OFF? Newbie here

Simple answer: Yes

However, the OP was welcoming commentary.
__________________
Redline BS/RDR with Escort Live
Laser Intercepter (Dual)

Passport Max (v1.6)
RX65 (S7)
Valentine One (pre-ESP)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old October 3rd, 2013
bkayrac bkayrac is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortRadar View Post
Leave POP off on any of our detectors. It will slow down detection of non-POP radar because it has to go back and look at 33.8GHz every 67mS (the transmit time of a POP burst). Of more importance though, if you turn POP on then you will get regular POP false alerts from nearby radar detectors. Radar detectors leak radar-like emissions which are normally filtered out. Because POP mode bursts are so fast these processes are disabled with POP detection on.

POP mode radar is very rare and only used to preview speed then normal, easily detected, radar mode should switched on to issue a citation.

Because Max scans all radar frequencies so fast, it is fast enough to catch QT and IO with POP off or on. Here's a video from a user bench QT testing Max with several radar guns demonstrating this. It didn't miss a shot. You can find his full review in the Passport Max section of the forum, the sticky titled, "The Max Experience".

Just remember that the initial target of POP, QT or IO will be alerted but their speed will also be measured. Your only defense against them is detecting someone ahead of you being shot or through networked alerts from other users who recently reported them such as with the Escort Live smartphone app.
That video POP is ON on the max, Nine said with pop on it detected pop 10/10, however with it off, it was 20% for successful detection.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old October 3rd, 2013
Butcher318 Butcher318 is offline
Armchair Expert
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,127
Default

20% is pretty good since it's TURNED OFF and still gets it. The point is I would give up all POP alerts and wait for the normal IO shot of KA. And by running with POP off you get less junk detector false alerts.

Since the number of POP equipped radar guns used nation wide is very very small (I have heard less then 5%) to me it's a non-issue. With a Max however if your concerned about it then turn it on. It will not slow the detector down. As long as you can deal with the increased number of false alarms by doing so your good to go.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
indiana, instant on, max, pop, quick trigger

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 Escort Inc.